This is the last letters page for West Lothian TODAY

My thanks to everyone who has helped make West Lothian NEWS and West Lothian TODAY the most lively letters page in the district.

You will all be sadly missed.

It's appropriate, perhaps, that the last word should go to our most prolific writer, SJ.

Doesn't look like season of goodwill

SIR, There was me thinking this is the season of good will and cheer to all, doesn't look like it to me. I put the piece in about the National Anthem in to show what our neighbours and tyrannical rulers thought about us then, and how they think about us now, although the tactics are a little more underhanded, and with the law the way is today, not so openly murderous.
 
It would appear one of the latest contributions condones this, and would even go little further to say that this should still be apply in this day and age. To think  that our greatest fear of all in this day and age, is murderous fanatical Islamic terrorists.This opens up other avenues when people living in our midst can think like this of his own countrymen, or is there another reason for this insane contribution. I will reflect again what was written in case some people missed this.
 
The line in OUR national anthem about crushing rebellious Scots was officially removed from the national anthem,even though it should still apply in my opinion!  (JM Howden)
I think most Scots would recognise that the cause of the Jacobites was a just one, all they were trying to do was claim back what was rightly theirs in the 1st place, a free and Independent Scotland that was bought by English gold, to whom the receivers of this, they and they alone are the ones I would have called traitors.
 
And something else to think about when you weigh up the facts, nothing has changed since the days of King Edward the 1st (Longshanks) he said "The trouble with Scotland is that it is full of Scots". Famous words that were spoken not only by Longshanks, but by every conquering Englishman who set foot on Scottish soil, albeit in a different sentence, but basically saying the same thing. They have since been repeated in the corridors of power we call Westminster, although as I stated before, the tactics are different. We need our own single identity returned, and we need to be proud and passionate about regaining an Independent Scotland that doesn't put up with any more financial rape from across the border.
 
S.J.   West Lothian

Christmas spirit is alive and well

SIR, I see the Spirit of Christmas is alive and well chez JM in Howden! Traitors? Tsk, tsk,JM!!

It will probably be hard for him to understand, but the re are a considerable number of people who want to see Scotland independent, who have no problem with the queen continuing 'long to reign over us'. The Norwegians have a monarchy, although it is much smaller and more 'people-friendly' than our overblown establishment. The queen there is known to go 'down the town' in Oslo to do her shopping - very civilised.

Anyway JM, the present queen is from a line of German imports. The original Kings of the United Kingdom were Scottish, so all the 'traitors' were trying to do in 1745 was to put the heir to the Scottish line back on the throne instead of some Dutch import who had a fondness for white horses! The fact that their Prince was a waster and had no interest in them but only had eyes on regaining the English throne, does not make them traitors for wanting to reinstate their own rightful (in their eyes) king.

We are now in the 21st century, by the way. Why not come and join us?!
Yours patriotically

Mr Angry, Craigshill

What bit don't you understand?

SIR, Clarke, what part of "Where is the money going to come from if not from the tax-payers?" do you not understand?

Communities Scotland is a Scottish Government agency and as such is funded by the tax-payers therefore if your statement regarding them paying 50% of the money and the Council paying the other 50% is accurate then the tax-payers are paying the full amount to bail you out of a situation that has nothing at all to do with the tax-payers.

As for your illiterate ramblings e.g. "it has been stated many a time that half of funding is coming from Communities Scotland the Council who are appearing oh so generous and are matching the rest would still go on to sell off half of the estate to recoup their losses."

That really takes the biscuit, and then you have the temerity to suggest that others should go to school, obviously you were off on the days they taught English.

I take it Sean and Phil are so embarrassed by your recent offerings that they no longer wish to debate the subject.

James Pryde then tells us that, "We are not asking for anymore than the houses are worth, I and I am sure the rest of the home owners feel the same, do not want to be out of pocket".

Well the houses cannot be worth very much since the Arup report so I think the offer is more than fair.

What about the ones that bought their houses with massive discounts from the LDC, are they going to give back the profit they would make?

Somehow, I doubt it.

Oh, lest I forget Clarke, what has happened to the fancy title?

Fergus Raud, West Lothian

Plenty oil in the sea yet

SIR, We constantly hear from the pessimists that the oil in the North sea is running out, this from the so-called armchair scholars. I have copied an extract from the Money week website a highly reputable company and there doesn't appear to be any concern from them about the amount of oil.
The UK is about to become a net importer of crude. That's a fact.

But it's the cheap, easy-to-get oil we're running out of, not oil itself.

An estimated 27 billion barrels of oil remain untapped in the North Sea. It may be harder and more expensive to extract - but in a climate where many experts believe we'll never again pay less than $50 for a barrel of oil, what remains of North Sea oil will be hot property for anyone who gets their hands on it.

That's why North Sea oil exploration hit a 35-year record in June this year.

Despite the fact that the North Sea's huge shallow fields are well past their heyday, Malcolm Wicks, the Energy Minister, announced that there'd been 147 applications by 121 companies this year - more than in any year since 1971.

"I'm determined that we maximise the exploitation of the remaining reserves which could be between 22 and 28 billion barrels of oil equivalent."

Snapping up these remaining reserves will form the first phase of Britain's Final Energy Boom. This "last-gasp" extraction will simply slow the pace of the production decline, not stop it. Nevertheless, it's in both the Government AND Big Oil's interest to keep North Sea oil and gas pumping for as long as possible.

So, with 121 companies fighting over the 27 billion barrels left in the North Sea... who will be the big financial winners?

The winners in today's present climate will be a UK government who rides high over what is OURS. An Independent Scotland will reap the benefits if we choose. If we move to break away soon, we could be seeing great financial sums heading towards a Scottish treasury and these will be funny money figures.

According to figures, there are an estimated 27 billion barrels at $80 dollars a barrel in today's terms so don't kid ourselves on here, there is a future for Independence.

S.J.   West Lothian

Line no longer exists

SIR, I see S.J still hasnt got a clue!

The line in OUR national anthem about crushing rebellious scots was officially removed from the national anthem,even though it should still apply in my opinion!

It is also worth noting that many Scots,who were not rebellious to the crown joined in with the army to rid our land of the jacobites and other traitors to our country.
 
Next point s.j?
 
God Save The Queen

JM, Howden

Budget could even be topped

SIR, Fraud, Without wanting to resort to name calling, you really do astound me, as I have said more than once this was:

• the Council's suggestion and could still be a viable option. this was rejected due to the fact that the Council wanted to profit from their ridiculously low estimates

• it is the Council who need to find a solution not the homeowners, you don’t get a diagnosis from a doctor and are then are told to treat yourself.
• The Council commissioned the Arup report, the Council decided to release this information, the Council deliberately did not make the commissioning of the report public before release, meaning that it did not show up on Property Enquiry Certificates and
• it has been stated many a time that half of funding is coming from Communities Scotland the Council who are appearing oh so generous and are matching the rest would still go on to sell off half of the estate to recoup their losses.

So once again Fraud there would be no use of tenants' money, in fact depending on what the Council received for the land, which incidentally is now even more valuable with the Bathgate Airdrie rail link, the housing budget could find itself topped up.  

Now Fraud if you are unable to understand this you would need to back to school, as a student, not a teacher.  Maybe you could locate your real name while you are there?  

Kirsty Clarke, Deans

Anthem's not so friendly after all

SIR, In all of my ignorance, which is echoed often enough by one contributor, I never ever knew the 6th verse of God save the Queen.

Not that I was ever averse to singing it or even standing up for it, I only ever knew the first verse.

Now I know it, I wonder what all our Pro-Unionist friends think of a song that wants to crush and defeat us. Now there's allies for you, not only do they rob the cash out your pocket, steal all our revenue from the oil but now they want tae stand on our heids and wipe us out. If you are not familiar with it, here it is;

Lord grant that Marshal Wade may by thy victory aid victory bring.

May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush rebellious Scots to crush God save the Queen.

It would appear that they are going to reword this song to encompass the change in modern living and bring into the fold all the different countries in the union along with different faiths and cultures. Why now, why bother, it may not be that long before we are singing our own.

It wouldn't have been as bad had this been written pre-unionisation but, 100 years into it, is showing what we really meant to our caring neighbours, or do our unionist friends have a simpler reason that this murderous line is included in an Anthem that is suppose to be for all under the one flag.

S.J.  West Lothian

The truth is out there somewhere

SIR, Clarke, the possibility is that the money could come from Santa's little helpers (twice) because that is about as remote as your suggestion, all you have done is confirm that selling the whole estate to a private developer is not where the money is going to come from - that is crystal clear Clarke!

So where is the money coming from?

You really do seem to be having difficulty answering the question as Sean and Phil did before you, learn from their mistakes.

Now you have unabated breath.

 The truth out there!

Fergus Raud, West Lothian

Not so funny from our side of the fence

SIR, It must be good for people like Fraud to be able to complain about where is the money coming from to pay for houses for the people of Deans South.

It is worth remembering it was the Council's decision to both commission and release the Arup report and therefore blighting our houses, even though it was a very small cross section of houses inspected.

It is also worth noting that if you believe all that the Arup report had to say, we were told that the houses only had five years left in them, yet at a recent meeting the council said that it was not concerned if the matter was not deal with within that timescale.  If this is the case then they cannot believe that the houses are in that bad a state.

It is further worth noting that at no time have any of the homeowners asked for rent payers monies to be used.

Why should homeowners suffer as a result of this report?

We are not asking for anymore than the houses are worth, I and I am sure the rest of the home owners feel the same, do not want to be out of pocket.  Surely this is not too much to ask for?  There would be no way that any of the homeowners would be able to buy a new house with what we are being offered.

It’s good to see you sitting in your house without the worry of how much your house is worth and being able to sleep soundly at night knowing that you have and will continue to have a roof over your head.  Spare a thought for those not so lucky.

James Pryde, West Lothian

I hope sanity prevails

SIR, I appreciated the reply I got from Mr Arif, straight to the point. I am also pleased that common sense prevailed in Sudan, whether this was political pressure or the fact the outside world seen this as an act of savagery, who knows, but the fact remains, there should not be any country living like this in the modern world.
 
For the record, I have Asian neighbours and I know they have a very busy schedule and I do a little to help them like take their bins out, weed their front garden and they are one of the nicest couples you could meet, always polite and courteous.

I just see red when you witness the act of what I would call mindless depravity and one sided acceptance of one and only one religion, where they are prepared to murder innocents who do not believe. Tolerance and acceptance is a two way street.
 
This puts an end to this subject for me, I only hope that sanity prevails with the fanatical side of Islam.
 
Ian Campbell, Livingston

Crystal clear where money is coming from

SIR, Fraud, I have stated a possibility of where the money could come from twice now, but just for you here it is once again.

It was put before the steering group that, the council intended to sell the whole of the estate to a private developer and this is where they would get the money to buy owners properties.  Not rents, not taxes, but by selling the whole estate to a private developer.

The council's estimates for the estate were thought too low and it was then asked that if this deal was agreed and the actual price the whole estate sold for was more than the council's estimate, the extra money would then be distributed evenly.  The council refused this, despite stating they did not wish to make a profit.

This should now be crystal clear to you Fraud, and I await your comments with baited breath.

Kirsty Clarke, Deans South

Merry Christmas to people of all faiths

SIR, Following on from Ian Campbell's letter, Islam forbids forced marriages , does not demean women and encourages good behaviour to peoples of all faiths.

That withstanding, there are those Muslims who use the "Machismo" culture to behave badly towards women. Its the same " Machismo" culture which still makes domestic violence prevalent in all countries and  amongst persons of all faiths and those of no faith. Using Mr Campbell's phraseology, its a pity that Christian Democratic countries such as the USA & UK indulges the tyrannical and chauvinist regime of Saudi Arabia in order to secure strong and rewarding International Trade Agreements.

I do, however, share Mr Campbell's views on what happened in Sudan and can't help but feel our Foreign Office was to deferential to the Sudanese authorities instead of being more vigorous from the offset to defend the rights of a British Citizen.
 
Mr Campbell use of the phrases "They let Us " and "Yourselves" immediately implies that someone like myself who was born, educated and works in the UK is not one of "US" because he is not a White Christian. Sinister or What?
 
Anyway, I will always defend anyone's right to express their views and will follow the sentiments of Mr (Not so) Angry and wish everyone a Happy and Enjoyable Christmas and New year.

Irfan Arif, Livingston North

Too much government is bad for our health

SIR, I have looked at some of the replies in the Independence debate and have taken on board what CS and JM have had to say, I also recognise that the Guys must be true Unionists.

However there was another entry which I won't go into as it proves my point that some people will only write in to castigate and try to ridicule so, this is not worth commenting on.
 
The fact that someone states "Britain is my country", the fact as it is, Britain is not a country but a Union of countries presided over by a government who are mainly made up by English. The fact that there are many Scots in the cabinet is neither here nor there, they have shown their true colours when it comes to it, personal survival and power is the order of the day with them. This was shown during the week when it was the minnows who had to fall on the sword when the sleaze hit the fan, this was Labour on both sides of the border, did I say border, I thought you couldn't get borders when you were one country.
 
Another statement said that reports show oil is declining, again true, but that could be said after they took the 1st gallon out. Once you start taking something, it will decline. The fact is that there is more and more exploration going on and the experts state that we may have just touched the tip of the iceberg as far as extracting oil from the North sea.
 
In a country the size of ours, do we need 4 tiers of government?, do we need Local, MSPs, MPs and Euro MPs to govern properly? I personally don't think so. I believe we are wasting our taxes on the MPs who sit in Westminster and do very little for us. We have to remember, our MSPs have the same powers as the leeches who sit down south, so let us use them in our time of need. The money that two of our Local MPs managed to get through in a year (£300,000 est) in expenses alone could have kept some local causes going for a long time, and it would have been more appreciated and rewarding. Just take the amount of members (Scottish) sitting in Westminster and transferring half of the earnings back to Scotland, this would indeed be a big bonus, another reason for dissolving our partnership.
 
Scotland would, I think, be part of the EU, but the fear of one contributor worrying about our financial institutions suffering from a break with the rest of the UK is totally unfounded, we live in a world economy, these type of institutions would be at the heart of any business whether we were a union or not. They know how to operate in a world market offering competitive prices and that alone would ensure their survival.
 
We also have to remember that the great Labour party were in fact a socialist party, socialism is the same as nationalism, except that you can't be one without the other, the fact that people support Unionism does take away the shine of self recognition. Ask this question to any Georgian, Armenian, Australian, Canadian. The latter people do not feel British although they were at one point, members of the Great Empire.
 
Anyone that feels the need to be a part of a bigger gang must feel a touch of insecurity, the big boys won't hit us if we are on our own, no, we are strong enough to muck in with the rest of them and remain on the same playing field.

S.J.  West Lothian

Don't expect me to join you

SIR, I see that calls for reasoned debate in your pages have fallen on deaf ears as your coterie of Great British Fundamentalists amply demonstrate in their latest diatribes.

Poor old SJ must feel like a stranger in his own land, such is the level of vitriol being poured upon him for daring to be Scottish. Keeping messrs JM, CS and Corbett out of the equation for now, it always surprises me how the most vehement anti-Europeans are this way  inclined because they want to remain independently British and will have no 'Johnny Foreigner' dictating to them on all manner of things. Funnily, that is exactly what a lot of us in Scotland have felt for years, as far as the supposedly equal union of Scotland and England was concerned - yet we are labelled as fascists, fanatics and all manner of evil-doers.

I have said it before, and say it again here, I have no problem with anyone in Scotland wanting to remain British - just don't expect me to be one of them. 'British' for some is just a euphemism for all manner of other prejudices.

Hopefully, Scotland will cease to be the best small-minded country in the world when it raises its sights and sees beyond the confines of the 'United' Kingdom. Independence is a state of mind, but only if that mind is broad enough to accept it.

No doubt your antithetical contributors will have their say - again, and again, and again.......................!!

Donnie MacNeill, Livingston

Pensions picked in budget

SIR, One point overlooked by observers regarding the recent budget announcement on the reduction of basic rate tax from 22% to 20% effective from 6th April next year is the effect on the tax relief on pension payments. At the moment, any contributions made by an employee attracts 22% tax relief, from April 6th, this reduces to 20%.

Currently if an employee is earning £15,000 and paying 2% into a pension scheme, they would have a deduction of £19.50 per month and the tax relief at 22% would take this up to £25.00, tax relief of £5.50 per month.

From April, the tax relief reduces to 20% so the same employee would now have to make a contribution of £20.00 in order to get the total of £25.00 they were previously getting, provided they agreed to pay the extra £0.50. If the employee does not pay extra then of course they are going to be worse off and the treasury gains no matter what the employee does. If the employee does not pay then the rules of the pension scheme may mean that they would not qualify for the employer contribution

I guess the full extent of how much worse everybody is going to be will become clear in the first pay packet in April.

Given with one hand and much more taken away with the other, and this has gone on for years!! Obviously the Chancellor still has more to rob from the pension funds.

Name and address supplied, Broxburn

Extremists want to make this country an Islamic state

SIR, Mr Arif, I was never really bothered one way or another about religion, race or any of the things that you think I am.

What I cannot accept is a religion that doesn't accept that there are other religions in the world except their own.

A religion that demeans women, forces marriage upon them and in certain parts, encourages extremism through hatred of anyone not like themselves.
 
It was in part that a woman who was in this country (Sudan) performing a much needed service and is vilified in such a manner that in all probability will be mentally scarred for the rest of her life for, well what we in this country would call, such an innocent incident.
 
There is an old saying of, "when in Rome" but this doesn't appear to be the fact in this country no, it seems that anyone who comes to this country MUST have their religious and Cultural beliefs upheld or it is a case of victimisation or racism. Where was this woman's rights, why was she not listened to by the authoritarian regime she was trying to help?
 
I know of a lot of good people in this area but you have to agree, there are extremists' in this country who are hell bent on shifting this country towards an Islamic state. It is time that the people who do come to our country, that they accept that this is a democratic Christian country and they let us, and yourselves, enjoy the freedom we have without the fear of recrimination for personal beliefs.
 
Ian Campbell, Livingston

Time for a little reflection

SIR, In response to the questions submitted by SJ, can I give you my answers:

• 1. Do people want independence?
   
  No. Not only do I not wish to break up from the rest of the UK, in the Scottish elections this year a substantial majority of people who voted supported parties who wish to see the UK continue.
• 2. Will we survive financially?
   
  Presumably SJ means as an independant Scotland, in which case of couse the answer is of course Scotland would survive, but the more important question is whether Scotland would benefit more by remaining part of the UK, which in my view it would. We already have one of the highest employment rates in the EU, a great education system (which the SNP are putting at risk), and financial institutions whose main customers are in other parts of the UK. Why put this at risk?
• 3. Are we proud of our nation?
   
  Yes, but you don't need to be a nationalist to be proud of your nation.
• 4. Should we be dictated to by another country?
   
  We aren't.
• 5. Do we have a knowledge and a confidence in our fellow Scots to make it on our own?
   
  Does SJ mean he wishes to leave the EU as well as the UK? Did James Watt, Alexander Fleming, David Hume, James Young or James Keir Hardie feel constrained by being part of the UK? It is only small minded nationalists who feel like that.
• 6. Are we ashamed of our heritage as a single entity?
   
  No. But equally I am proud of my relations who stood shoulder to shoulder against the forces of fascism in the second world war with their comrades from the rest of he UK. I am also proud of the NHS promoted by a Welshman and introduced by a UK Labour Government.

As Albert Einstein once said, "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
 
SJ should reflect.

CS, West Lothian

Practice what you preach

SIR, If SJ thinks that his latest load of tripe is a contribution to a 'serious debate' then he is seriously delusional. The truth about SJ, and his fellow members of the SNP claque that pollute the pages of WLN, is that they represent the atavistic wing of the SNP and are a hairsbreadth away from being racists.

However, in the new spirit of serious debate I would like to give SJ a bit of a pointer along the avenue of fraternity   - if you wish to debate on the basis of facts it would be just as well to include some in your contributions.

James Corbett. Bridgecastle

More questions than answers

SIR, Well I see S.J has asked six questions for us all to answer

• Do people want Independence?

No-The Snp were only voted in because Labour made that much of a mess,and besides the people of Scotland voted for Unionist Partys

• Will we survive Financially?

Well if you believe Mr Bawface with his "its oor oil" cry! When actual studies show that the oil in the north sea is declining

• Are we proud of our nation?

Yes, but also proud to be British

• Should we be dictated to by another country?

No and we are not, My country is Britain

• Do we have the knowledge and confidence in our fellow Scots to make it on our own?

No,not when you look at our current first minister and the ones we have had in the past (Donald Dewar apart)

• Are we ashamed of our heritage as a single entity?

No, But we are not a single entity-we are one of four countries who make up the United Kingdom,and we always will be.

JM  For the Union  (1707-till the end of time!), Howden

In the name of the wee man - or is it religion?

SIR, Isn't religion a paradox. Every faith embraces the principles of tolerance, respect, peace and love in the name of some greater being - and yet!

And yet, they all purport to do so, as long as it is on their own particular terms. This has led to fanaticism,conflict, bloodshed and death throughout history. Substitute a teacher being threatened with severe beating for calling a Teddy Bear by the name of a prophet with Catholics being burned alive by Protestants (and vice versa) and you will see the historical irrationality of the whole 'religious' situation.

Religion is a wonderful concept corrupted and manipulated by men (of all races and 'beliefs') for their own ends. They make up rules, at will,l to help control their adherents and 'eliminate' any opposition to their way of thinking, whilst they themselves seem to remain immune to their own edicts. The religious symbolism of shepherds and sheep is well made!

As for me, when I'm not angry (and this nonsense makes me angry), I would call myself an Ambivalent.

Nevertheless I would wish all people of all faiths long and happy lives, with the proviso that they let me live mine, in my own tolerant, respectful way!

Mr (not so) Angry, Craigshill

Sly dig at Muslims was inevitable

SIR, I was just waiting for the first letter to relate the events in Sudan to have a sly dig at Muslims in Scotland as well as blaming the Muslim community for Christmas no longer being celebrated as a Christian Festival in West Lothian and beyond.

Can Ian Campbell give the evidence where Muslims in Scotland are putting pressure on persons to not celebrate Christmas?

I don’t see the evidence.

But what I can see is Mr Campbell being a sad individual who shows his lack of tolerance by using predictable sanctimonious  tripe to tarnish Muslims in West Lothian.

Irfan Arif, Livingston North

Let's all be reasonable

SIR, Mr Crawford is right, as, up to a point, was Mr (Really) Angry, about juvenile name-calling being prejudicial to intelligent debate. Sadly, some of your contributors have not quite grasped that concept and live in a past age where verbal 'square goes' were seen as a sign of political maturity.

I have suffered many evenings of such abuse at election counts, where fairly eminent Labour party people resorted to the language and manners of the school playground in insulting the opposition. In fairness, some of it was returned; and in equal fairness, some of the Labour representatives were much more magnanimous than their colleagues.

So, with the Christmas season of peace and goodwill upon us, let us all resort to being reasonable in our utterances on these pages - at least until 'Boxing' Day!

Donnie MacNeill, Livingston

Too much health and safety is bad for you

SIR, There appears to be something of a revolt amongst the Health and Safety stormtroopers.

The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (the people who carefully add up the number of trouser-related injuries every year) says that we shouldn't wrap children in cotton wool and that it is "positively necessary" for youngsters to take part in activities that could lead to a twisted ankle or a cut knee.

Chief executive Tom Mullarkey said: "People have this perception of 'elf and safety' as something that restricts your life, rather than helping you to live fully and successfully." Err . well . yes. Who was it that banned conkers, football boots and snorkels? Who took down goalposts on playing fields in case someone ran into them? Who tried to ban hanging baskets in case they fell on someone's head? Who tried to have all the palm trees in Torquay dug up in case their vicious leaves maimed a passer-by? Elf and Safety, that's who.

Still, as Jesus said, there will more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over 99 righteous persons who refuse to rub sun cream on burning youngsters in case they might be allergic to it.

Fergus Raud, West Lothian

No slagging, no name calling, the debate is on

SIR, I totally agree with contributor Robert Crawford on the slagging and petty name calling.

I have lowered myself to this on a number of occasions.

What the problem is, certain people who, like he states, shall remain nameless. They deliberately go out of their way to criticise letters without offering anything in return as to why they disagree. To debate with facts is a healthy way to either stick, or change your mind on whatever subject it is that is being debated. I can certainly do this if certain parties can stick to the game rules but, I fear they are so far down the bitterness trail, they may be past redemption.

On the matter of Independence, I am totally for it both on economical and hand on the heart reasons. I don't believe that any country should be tied to another for financial reasons, even although I think we are being short changed on this account.
I also think that ever since the act of the union, we have been unwilling puppets for the southern puppet masters, we have had to dance to their tune at every turn, enter wars as a union, why?, many countries joined together as allies in the 2 great wars and more, this because they were protecting their freedom, which raises another question, are we really free? It did not mean that we had to be joined by the hip when it was over.

Many smaller countries of the world have gained independence from a lot of empires and never looked back, this stems from the Great Roman empire right through to the soviet union. Most of the countries that were tied up in these pacts / empires are now making it on their own. The main reason for these earlier unions was for strength in war times and to protect the Mother country when it was raping natural and human resources in the name of Unity, more like personal greed and power if you ask me.
 
So the questions remain:

• Do people want Independence?
• Will we survive Financially?
• Are we proud of our nation?
• Should we be dictated to by another country?
• Do we have the knowledge and confidence in our fellow Scots to make it on our own?
• Are we ashamed of our heritage as a single entity?

The 6 answers in my opinion would be:

• Yes, lets go for it.
• Yes, lets go for it.
• Yes, lets go for it.
• No, lets go for it.
• Yes, lets go for it.
• No. lets go for it.

These 6 basic questions everyone should be asking themselves, not because we have been tied together for so long, not because of religion, not because of racial or bigoted reasons but the main fundamental questions and abilities it takes to survive as an Independent nation.

No slagging, no name calling, the debate is on.
 
S.J. West Lothian

Lashings show tolerance as a one-way street

SIR, We are now coming up to the Christmas holidays and we are now seeing more people relate to this as a Winterfest, Winter holiday etc, WHY. This is the time we as a Christian country (supposedly) celebrate the birth of Jesus, are we to assume that anyone who does not celebrate will indeed, be working.
 
I am also saddened at the teacher who faces 40 lashes in Sudan for allowing her (Muslim) pupils to call a Teddy Muhammad, a name they in fact pick themselves. Surely if the Muslims in this country agree with this, then we would quite within our rights to flog them, or this only a one way street.
 
Tolerance is one thing, but you have to cut it both ways. If we accept their beliefs then there should be no pressure placed on us when we celebrate ours.
 
Ian Campbell, Livingston

Achievement of note

SIR, What amounts to a bigger sporting achievement than England winning the Ashes or the England rugby team winning the World Cup, the Scotland golf team have won the equivalent on the golf course.

I hold my breath when the Knighthoods are being handed out.

This would show that we Scots are on an even footing with our neighbours in this United Kingdom if these guys are honoured.
 
On that note, a very hearty cheer for Colin Montgomery & Co.
 
S.J.  West Lothian

Intelligent debate is more satisfying

SIR, Mr Angry or Mr Really Angry is right there was no need for JM's uncalled for attack on Alex Salmond.

He then goes on to spoil it by referring to JM as one of these morons. It is a sad fact that the pages of West Lothian Today are covered by correspondents pouring vitriol on each other.  Insults beget insult. Has none of these people heard of the Christian virtue of turning the other cheek?

I will not name the culprits for they know who they are.  Name calling might give them a sense of short lived sense of satisfaction. But intelligent debate on a subject such as independence would in my opinion bring much more satisfaction.

Robert Crawford, Torpichen

Cracking up

SIR, Clarke, who cares if you are bothered or not bothered?  No one has yet given the answer to the question of where do you expect the money to bail you out to come from, not you, not Phil and certainly not Sean, bluster and smokescreen all you want but the question will not go away.

As for name-calling, I think you will find that they were facts based on your pathetic contribution.

So now what do you expect to happen? You stay in your home until the council give you the price you think its worth (but where will they get the money?) and work in the Mari Blu frying bigger fish to make ends meet in the meantime.

You guys crack me up.

Fergus Raud, West Lothian

Give blood and help save a life

SIR, If you readers check out this website, they can find out where they can donate blood locally over the next few weeks.
 
http://www.scotblood.co.uk/south_east_of_scotland.html
 
S.J.  West Lothian

This infantile bile is dangerous

SIR, You know, there are some things that I just shrug my fairly broad shoulders at and shake my head.

I am not too inclined to do this with the latest piece of infantile, but dangerous, bile from JM, directed at the First Minister, but indirectly,at anyone who supports the SNP.

The Alex Salmond I know (apart from being a Hearts supporter!) is not a bad man. and certainly is none of the things JM accuses him of being.

When will these morons get it into their Neanderthal skulls that loving your own country does not mean that you must automatically hate all others. I know this concept is hard for real bigots to grasp, but as a person who supports the SNP and has lived and worked in England for several years (despite the fact several similar Neanderthals down there told me to get back to where I came from!), believe me it is possible to do it.

I wonder if JM was crying his eyes out in disappointment when England lost to Croatia the other night.?! Aye right!! Personally, I was disappointed for the England players, as they were proudly representing their country. I was simultaneously glad that the rest of 'the nation' had been spared months of gargantuan hype from the 'national media' before, during and after next year's European Championships!

It is called being grown up. JM. Why don't you give it a try - and give the rest of us peace?!

Mr. Really Angry, Craigshill (name and address supplied)

Is this what you call irony?

SIR, I saw the definition of irony yesterday; Alex Salmond,the leader of the anti-English, Anti-British SNP was at the launch of a new anti-sectarian initiative with the SFA.

Salmond said: "There are two things I can't stand - racism and sectarianism. I don't think it's possible to be a true Scot and a bigot".

So Iguess Alex Salmond isn't a true Scot?

Alex and his merry band of Jacobites are nothing more than a bunch of clueless hypocrites and I for one look forward to the next election when his smug smile is finally wiped from his large face
 
JM Livingston